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Thread: TMI sucks ass

  1. #11
    Electron 2/3rdsCobra's Avatar
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    Snipped a bit:
    Quote Originally Posted by shwagon View Post
    Finally some action on this forum...

    Most manufacturers discontinue parts after around 10 years of production (I’ve run into this with many vehicles). But, aftermarket companies usually see a market for these parts and produce them for their customer base.
    For a homologated car, I get it, a boutique car when the manufacturer can't realistically afford to re-invent the wheel when the part(s) have already been proven, much less likely. And again, by his own admission, "We purchased some manufacturing equipment from Brammo" which means that some of the parts Brammo used, TMI CONTINUES to use. Further, given the dimensions of both Atoms are pretty close, some of the parts that are exclusively Ariel Motors/TMI designed may me able to be adapted which adds another level of support that TMI has YET to exploit.

    Quote Originally Posted by shwagon View Post
    (Nomad order will be placed this winter!).
    I believe that THIS is why "Jesse has always been accommodating with my questions and requests", you're now a potential customer. If you HAD purchased the Atom 2, I believe his accommodating nature wouldn't have been so apparent.

  2. #12
    Lepton cvjoint's Avatar
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    Good info on licensing agreement. I had very little insight into Brammo Atom 2 intricacies, luckily the SRA I got is in the 3 series. When I was shopping there were either GM or Honda powered Atoms and a racing spec version with Honda power which were the only parameters I considered.

    I agree that any info we can have readily available on Atoms would be very useful. E.G. I've been caught off guard with a few torque specs and filter air info missing from the base materials.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2/3rdsCobra View Post

    I believe that THIS is why "Jesse has always been accommodating with my questions and requests", you're now a potential customer. If you HAD purchased the Atom 2, I believe his accommodating nature wouldn't have been so apparent.
    Actually, quite the opposite. I first contacted TMI (got Jesse) and he was more than happy to discuss an Atom 2 I was interested in. Our discussions went on (sporadically) over a 6-month period. I decided to pass and found a used Atom 3 about a year later. Again, Jesse answered all of my questions (keep in mind this was a car they were not selling). I was out bided on that particular Atom 3, but now am able to have Ariel build a Nomad to my specs (which he has also answered a ton of questions on).

    Quote Originally Posted by 2/3rdsCobra View Post
    by his own admission, "We purchased some manufacturing equipment from Brammo" which means that some of the parts Brammo used, TMI CONTINUES to use.
    I think they mean they purchased machines. It outright says they did not get the IP which would include blueprints, fixtures, and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2/3rdsCobra View Post
    Further, given the dimensions of both Atoms are pretty close, some of the parts that are exclusively Ariel Motors/TMI designed may me able to be adapted which adds another level of support that TMI has YET to exploit.
    .
    Have you been in/driven both cars? The Atom 3 blows the Atom 2 out of the water in fit/finish and driveability. I'm not an engineer but "pretty close" usually doesn't fly in regards to vehicle development. You can literally see the differences in the control arm design and I'm sure a lot of RD would be needed to change a suspension design/function.

  4. #14
    Electron 2/3rdsCobra's Avatar
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    Snipped a bit;
    Quote Originally Posted by shwagon View Post
    Have you been in/driven both cars? The Atom 3 blows the Atom 2 out of the water in fit/finish and driveability. I'm not an engineer but "pretty close" usually doesn't fly in regards to vehicle development. You can literally see the differences in the control arm design and I'm sure a lot of RD would be needed to change a suspension design/function.
    It's apparent that your experience with TMI was completely different from mine, that's good and I'm genuinely happy for you. Re: IP; for TMI to claim that they didn't get any IP, is just false. Of course they did, they had to have because some of the IP was property of Ariel Motors. Remember, Brammo had licensing first and with that, IP from Ariel. Now maybe TMI didn't get any of the IP that was exclusively Brammos' which may have happened but to claim that they didn't get any is disingenuous.

    The close enough comment I made you took out of context. Many people on this forum have successfully used Atom 3 parts with some modification on their Atom 2. If TMI actually took the time to talk to some of the Atom 2 owners and found out what worked and how, maybe I wouldn't have had to make the original post.

    I too have compared the TMI Atom 3 and Brammo 2 and while there are some improvements that the TMI Atom 3 employs for function and necessity (fitment of the Honda powerplant), there are also some things that are not as well thought out as the Atom 2. You mention the control arms so I'll start there. What I see is the control arms for the Atom 2 use a ball joint for the lower control arms, which is a stronger and safer than the radial mounted rod end arrangement in the Atom 3. When a ball joint fails, it still remains captured by the cup allowing the driver to safely pull to a stop. Rod end failure depending on the type and if is not properly set-up may not offer this level of safety if catastrophic failure occurs. The ball joint works on the principle of compression which is the force that the end lower control arm sees during upward articulation. There is more surface area on the ball joint than on the bearing in the rod end so the impact can be disbursed over a wider area minimizing catastrophic failure and reducing replacement costs. The Atom 2 also has a mechanism (overly complicated and half done I'll admit) to make wheel alignment (camber) changes w/o removing the rod end from the spindle. From what I can see, the Atom 3 doesn't have this ability, you must remove the rod end from the top of the spindle and rear lower toe arm to make ANY alignment changes. Also and this is based on empirical evidence, the Atom 3 rear lower control arm doesn't appear to be as structurally sound as the Atom 2's. I have seen on this forum a few Atom 3 rear lower control arms fail at the toe link weld joint when using slicks in excess of 275mm in width. As of this date, I have yet to hear of the same failure occurring on the Atom 2 arms. The Atom 2 offered a billet bell crank (I happen to have these) which isn't a factory option for the Atom 3. Lastly, the Atom 2 came with the option for individual seats as opposed to the plastic bench which the Atom 3 doesn't even have as an option.

    So you see, there are difference but not all of them are improvements from my perspective. FWIW, I didn't post this to turn this into an Atom 2 vs Atom 3, which is better contest. I did post in hopes that TMI would see the post and maybe consider rethinking their current company practice of alienating Atom 2 owners. BTW, congrats on your Nomad purchase, that is one hell of a car
    Last edited by 2/3rdsCobra; March 15, 2018 at 03:16 PM.

  5. #15
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    One thing I've learned from being an enthusiast of unique and older-ish vehicles is to always grab people's email addresses.

    When I'm requesting a rare part, need custom work done, or just need more info - sometimes it's better to take the time and write out my thoughts and questions so the recipient knows exactly where I'm coming from and what I'm looking for. I've found that calling people, during the middle of a busy business day, can be hit or miss. I'm not saying a person shouldn't always be professional over the phone, but you never know what the person you're calling was doing right before you called. Emails take longer, but the responses are usually thought-out, not to mention documented. For quick and simple things, I'll call, but for the tricky stuff I'll email and then follow up with a call, if needed. Jesse has always been great to email and is pretty prompt with getting back to me. Right now he's sourcing me a sports exhaust from the UK.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2/3rdsCobra View Post
    Lastly, the Atom 2 came with the option for individual seats as opposed to the plastic bench which the Atom 3 doesn't even have as an option.
    My AA3 came with individual seats, although it was only an option for a very limited time. TMI told me they were discontinued due to lateral support limitations.
    Last edited by nismo1534; March 16, 2018 at 02:58 PM.

  6. #16
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    Just to chime in here as an Atom 2 owner and a TMI customer for some misc. parts, I haven't had a bad experience dealing with them yet. I've sent emails, bugged them with several questions, and also requested the original build sheet of my 2. I was polite when doing so and patient when I didn't get an immediate response and it seemed to work. Most questions were answered and Jesse dug out my old paperwork from Brammo on the build and sent it over. Didn't have to do that, I wasn't a customer at this point, just another guy adding another task for him to do.

    Yes, I got the lecture that the Atom 2 isn't the same as the Atom 3, and it isn't directly supported...and if I order Atom 3 parts for my car it is at my own risk as they may not fit. Ok, I get it, between the lines I am hearing "we tried to sell parts for the 2 before but some of them didn't match (perhaps due to bad documentation from Brammo) and we had some pissed off customers....we better give them a disclaimer". TMI obviously has some of the info for the Atom 2's, but in the end they didn't manufacture the car. If they don't want to make the parts for it anymore, they don't owe anyone anything really in my opinion. They are in business to make money. Selling Atom 2 low production parts doesn't make money, especially if they aren't 100% sure what the car has in it and they have to risk having the credit card charge disputed or getting flamed.

    I called Ariel in the UK and they didn't have too many answers either just as an FYI. Very polite, first question was does it have the ecotec and after that they weren't 100% on the fit of the parts I was looking at. More than happy to help and told me to call back if I run into problems.

    I would LOVE to have more support, but in the end I don't expect it. I guess that is the difference as the support I do get I am happy to receive. I wanted to save $20k and get into my dream car...I couldn't afford more and I bought it knowing this. It's a risk, if I break something I may have to do ALOT more work to fix it.



    With that being said I'm here to help anyone however I can with an Atom 2 and the parts. I wish you the best with your repair and hope you're able to get what you need soon.
    2/3rdsCobra and sector: 4 like this.

  7. #17
    Electron 2/3rdsCobra's Avatar
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    Again, it wasn't so much the lack of support, I get it, the cars are different but like I noted and like Jesse claimed, some of the parts can be used on the Atom 2. Which ones? Who knows? I called TMI on two separate occasions for two separate issues and as soon as I told them what I was requesting and what it was for, I didn't get "the lecture", I got NOTHING, no pricing, no options, nothing. I felt as if I was bothering them. Once, OK bad day, bad timing, bad Mexican food, bad whatever but twice.... At least you got the option to buy the part(s), I didn't; it wasn't even offered. As a result of how I was treated, I sent an e-mail to Ariel UK. They responded and offered to send me the part if I wanted. Like I noted previously, I purchased the tools to make the gaskets, problem solved. Right now, I'm working with Ace Performance who will be providing some parts I need/want for this round of upgrades.

  8. #18
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    My $.02 TMI both Jesse and Mark have been great to deal with from helping me make a buying decision to supporting me whenever I have asked. I avoided a Atom 2 in part because of concerns with regards to service. Since owning my car, it appears TMI have worked hard to accommodate Atom 2 owners. Having owned a Lotus Elise prior to Atom, I have experience chasing down parts for low production cars no longer being produced. TMI is infinitely better to deal with than those dip sticks.

  9. #19
    Electron 2/3rdsCobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9and3 View Post
    My $.02 TMI both Jesse and Mark have been great to deal with from helping me make a buying decision to supporting me whenever I have asked. I avoided a Atom 2 in part because of concerns with regards to service. Since owning my car, it appears TMI have worked hard to accommodate Atom 2 owners. Having owned a Lotus Elise prior to Atom, I have experience chasing down parts for low production cars no longer being produced. TMI is infinitely better to deal with than those dip sticks.
    With as many people who are singing the praises of TMI as the 2nd coming of Atom 2 owners, maybe my experience(s) WERE the result of bad mexican food....
    nismo1534 likes this.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2/3rdsCobra View Post
    With as many people who are singing the praises of TMI as the 2nd coming of Atom 2 owners, maybe my experience(s) WERE the result of bad mexican food....
    Nope, I had the same experience with them as well.
    2/3rdsCobra likes this.

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