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Thread: Blackbird Fabworx Atom Aero Package

  1. #101
    Fermion Blackbird Fabworx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Atom View Post
    I don't ask for guarantees. Just some evidence of what my money will likely buy. To some extent, one always pays their money and takes their chances. On the other hand, evidence that the money will buy something substantial is always a good thing.
    I recall you saying - "Yes, indeed, the results were good. Eye-popping, even. I was there." ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Atom View Post
    With Richard's car putting down only 312 whp rather than the 350 I originally mentioned, he still has at least 55% more power than a stock SRA. Sure, your aero helped his car immensely and that's great but we still don't know if it will help a low (relatively speaking) HP car. Richard is the only person with laps in both a stock SRA and his much enhanced SRA and notes in his most recent post that he's not so sure your aero will help in stock trim due to increased drag.
    In this case I will have to disagree with both of you than, ha!
    Many of my of years of experimenting with aero were done on cars with far worse power to weight ratio than that of a stock SRA.
    My last track car weighed 2200 lbs with me in it and put down an eye watering 101 HP on the dyno.
    Yet even with a 22:1 P2W ratio I managed to find seconds at every single track once we started working on the aero package.
    Sonoma (Sears point) - 3.8 seconds improvement, Buttonwillow - 4.5 seconds, Chuckwalla - 3.2 seconds, to name a few.

    We've recently completed a number of aero upgrades on a customer BMW which he tracks regularly (15.5:1 P2W).
    So far he's been to Sonoma and Buttonwillow, and improved his PB on said tracks by no less than 7 and 6 seconds, respectively.

    The notion that a stock SRA is somehow too slow to be able to take advantage of aero is pretty comical, TBH.
    Don't take offense, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, just speaking from experience.
    Those cars are WAY more than fast enough to take advantage of the added aerodynamic grip.
    From everything that I can read and see so far, Richard has barely put any time into REALLY working the tuning aspect of the wings.
    He may very well run a setting that feels like it has a lot of drag because the AOA is too high and knocking it down a few degrees will yield better results.
    Chalk that for lack of experience, he's only been on track with the wings can be counted on a hand of a bomb squad guy and it takes time to get a feel and understanding.

    At any rate, I have no doubt that even a bone stock SRA will be lapping any track seconds quicker with either one of our setups.
    Cheers!

  2. #102
    Ion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird Fabworx View Post
    I recall you saying - "Yes, indeed, the results were good. Eye-popping, even. I was there." ..
    Indeed I said that. Eye-popping that is for for a 312 hp Atom. Unknown for a stock SRA.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird Fabworx View Post
    In this case I will have to disagree with both of you than, ha!
    Many of my of years of experimenting with aero were done on cars with far worse power to weight ratio than that of a stock SRA.
    My last track car weighed 2200 lbs with me in it and put down an eye watering 101 HP on the dyno.
    Yet even with a 22:1 P2W ratio I managed to find seconds at every single track once we started working on the aero package.
    Sonoma (Sears point) - 3.8 seconds improvement, Buttonwillow - 4.5 seconds, Chuckwalla - 3.2 seconds, to name a few.

    We've recently completed a number of aero upgrades on a customer BMW which he tracks regularly (15.5:1 P2W).
    So far he's been to Sonoma and Buttonwillow, and improved his PB on said tracks by no less than 7 and 6 seconds, respectively.
    Okay, now you're talking. That is some evidence that aero will help a stock SRA on shorter and intermediate length tracks. That's the sort of thing I've been asking for from the outset of the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird Fabworx View Post
    The notion that a stock SRA is somehow too slow to be able to take advantage of aero is pretty comical, TBH.
    TBH? I have no idea what that means. Regardless, I never said that a stock SRA is too slow to take advantage of aero. I questioned whether the already aerodynamically challenged Atom would experience a net benefit given that top speed will be compromised. Basically, I don't know if aero will help or not. I never claimed it won't help. I've just been asking for some evidence it will help and after all this time you finally gave some examples of low HP cars that improved their lap times at certain tracks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird Fabworx View Post
    Don't take offense, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, just speaking from experience.
    Had you given the examples of low hp cars that benefited from your aero in your initial reply, this thread would have been a whole lot shorter.

  3. #103
    Fermion Blackbird Fabworx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Atom View Post
    TBH? I have no idea what that means. Regardless, I never said that a stock SRA is too slow to take advantage of aero. I questioned whether the already aerodynamically challenged Atom would experience a net benefit given that top speed will be compromised. Basically, I don't know if aero will help or not. I never claimed it won't help. I've just been asking for some evidence it will help and after all this time you finally gave some examples of low HP cars that improved their lap times at certain tracks.
    The way I read it, when you say "aero challenged" you really mean "too slow to be able to take advantage of the wings", because if it "had enough power" to overcome the aerodynamic challenges than there won't be any questions about it.
    The Atom may be a rather draggy little car, same like any other exo-skeleton / open wheel / both car, but it's also light and and has a great power to weight ratio, this is what allows it to hang with high dollar machinery.
    Speaking of drag, I'd imagine that Richard's car has a lot more than the standard SRA even with the wings off...
    I don't know what wheel / tire combo the SRA comes with, but I'm pretty sure it isn't 15x11 wrapped in 275s.
    That adds A LOT of rolling drag and aero drag by itself, I'm wondering if this plays a part in the feel that the car is draggy..
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Atom View Post
    Had you given the examples of low hp cars that benefited from your aero in your initial reply, this thread would have been a whole lot shorter.
    Yeah, but we would've missed all the fun

  4. #104
    Electron
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    To clarify my point more concisely, what I was saying is its too complex a situation to ask "with wings will it be faster" as the track, car and driver all have a lot to do with the outcome.

    I know for a fact that if I drove the ACS oval in a stock SRA versus one with wings that the one with wings would be slower; the SRA is power limited not traction limited around the oval so you can do a full lap at full throttle. An oval lap in an SRA could only be faster with either more power or less drag. Compare that to my Z4 at ACS and that was traction limited in the oval, going in at 145mph I could have gone even faster with more traction in turns 1 & 2 so wings would help a high horsepower low drag car like the Z4. An Oval of course is the edge case but it proves my point about the SRA and track being variables.

    I know Phoenix Atom is a capable driver but I also know that a lot of other Atom drivers are not (we don't have a great reputation with most driving organizations believe it or not) and I've seen plenty of drivers with 300HP+ Atoms that I personally creamed at the track in my SRA (10+ seconds per lap) or I've seen the lap times or videos on youtube and if you give them wings I'm not sure they'd go any faster if they're not pushing the limits of traction without wings why would they?That's my point about drivers, of course that's not the fault of the wings or the car at all but if a bad driver buys wings and then complains the car is not faster well sorry it could very well be their fault alone.
    MadMaxAtom and cvjoint like this.

  5. #105
    Lepton cvjoint's Avatar
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    I just wanted to say, wow, what a neat aero kit. I've been looking at the development from day one. I just got myself an Atom and this is on the wish list for sure! Good job!

  6. #106
    Fermion Blackbird Fabworx's Avatar
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    Richard - your car is the star of a few seconds of my GTA Rd. 2 video


  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Atom View Post
    Holy cow! Just how much power does that take?
    twin charged, 420whp, 24psi

  8. #108
    Ion
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    Is this kit still available?

  9. #109
    Electron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Atom View Post
    Is this kit still available?
    It is not. I reached out to Blackbird a few weeks ago to inquire, and they said they are no longer producing them.

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