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Thread: Ciro Racing Rear Wing/Mounts Group Buy!!!

  1. #41
    Up Quark
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    Hey Max,

    Glad the wing is working out for you! You may want to tape some yard tuffs to the bottom of the wing, to test what the max AoA you can run. Once a wing stalls it creates turbulence and drag. The gurney flap does allow more AoA before wing stall. Maybe mount a gopro underneath on the frame?

    The roll hoop on the Atom leaves a wake of dirty air behind it. It may be a good idea to use some aero shaped plastic extrusion over the roll hoop. It can be found on ultralight supply web sites.

    Thanks for the great feedback!

    Rick

  2. #42
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    Thanks for the review Max! Very helpful!

  3. #43
    Neutrino MadMaxAtom's Avatar
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    Hi Rick. I believe 30 degrees is about the most before stall, as I did try greater than 30 degrees,and my downforce diminished..(car returned to a loose condition) so I assumed the wing had stalled. I would be willing to move the wing up a few more inches into cleaner air (like we had discussed before) and do some more trial runs. I have to say,at 30 degrees AoA, it would be a nice setup for autocross etc where aero drag speeds are less and max downforce useable.
    Last edited by MadMaxAtom; August 26, 2015 at 03:30 AM.
    The power of an Atom is a terrible thing to waste! Atom owner/operator since 2007. The more you chase perfection,the faster it becomes. John Force for President! (I asked him once in person...he laughed)

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMaxAtom View Post
    I ran yesterday at WH with the new Ciro wing and could not be happier with the results. I ran the first session with the wing off the car and just the uprights in place..and the car ran similar lap times when I last visited without the wing.I then bolted the wing in place (4 bolts,easy to do) and worked on angles. The car is much more stable above 80mph and lap times proved it. Corners where the car lifted the inner rear wheel could now be powered out of with no wheel spin and sectional lap times dropped. I tried various angles of the wing and settled on 15 degrees for adding sufficient downforce without adding too much additional drag. Yes, the Atom is severely handicapped by too much drag already,and adding more only hurt my top speeds noticeably. With the full 30 degrees of wing attack, my trap speed on the long front straight was 6mph slower,which is considerable. I set my best overall lap times with 15 degrees of wing and the car never felt better. There were sections that were faster with more wing attack angle, but the offsetting drag on the high speed sections was too offsetting and hurt overall lap times. So,there really is such a thing as too much,at least on my car. Maybe with more horsepower to offset the greater drag I could lower my times further,but I am pretty happy with the durability of my car at the power levels I am at. At no time did the front end feel unsettled, including the sessions with full wing angle,so rear wing alone is working fine for me. I set a personal best lap time 1.8 seconds faster than the COM Super Unlimited Whiskey Hill Raceway class record (which is held by me..) but it will have to wait till next year for me to officially break it. Very happy Atom owner...with Ciro wing! (thanks for asking)
    You said "I set a personal best lap time 1.8 seconds faster than the COM Super Unlimited Whiskey Hill Raceway class record (which is held by me..)"
    It looks like it compare to previous time when you was on track.

    But actually if to make a clear test, how much improvement you got in the same day in the same conditions.
    You said you tried first without wings and after you put the wings and said that felt improvement and car stable, but in seconds how much it was?
    Sorry to disturb you with this question again, but just want to realize how much it gives.
    So you current wing is 71” dual element,right? It looks like this wing is "heavy" I mean it generate a lot of downforce along with the drag, so for this type of wing you need to have enough HP, I have 300HP in my Atom, I don't know if this power enough for such wing. How much HP you have if not a secret and could you show the track configuration, to see how fast the track is.

  5. #45
    Neutrino MadMaxAtom's Avatar
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    On Monday, I took my Atom to Whiskey Hill raceway.The weather was 78 degrees and sunny. I use a Racelogic PerformanceBox GPS data recorder.I ran the first 30 minute session with no wing and ran consistent fast laps of 1:46.8-1:48 seconds with a best of 1:46.8,which is only .2 seconds off what I ran at Time Trials on August 2nd of this year at Whiskey Hill(1:46.6 officially timed and recorded) with no wing.
    So, with no wing mounted, on Monday,the car ran 1:46.8 seconds. What I expected and a good base to start from.
    I then bolted on the Ciro wing and went out with the wing at zero degrees and recorded laps.Lap time averages dropped about .4 seconds. I then moved the wing to 10 degrees and ran a session. Lap time averages dropped about .7 seconds. Then moved the wing to 15 degrees and dropped a full second plus. I did this all day as it was a private test day so LOTS of track time available. My best time of the day was a 1:44.8, with the lap times in the 1:44.8-1:45.3 and this was accomplished with the wing at 15 degrees of angle. That was the sweet spot. The car felt very planted and stable.
    With the wing at 30 degrees of angle,the lap times jumped up into the 1:48-1:50 range. There were some splits that were faster (around the slower corners of the track) but the overall lap times were higher with 30 AoA. Any higher than 30 degrees AoA increased the split times on the slower corners (wing stall,no added downforce) and dropped the trap speeds considerably,and lap times jumped into the 1:50 range. At the end of the day I removed the wing (easier to transport) and ran the last session wingless. Lap times jumped to high 1:46s-1:47s...It actually felt scary wingless...

    My car makes about 235-240whp on 93 octane pump gas. The Ciro wing is a single element wing described earlier in this thread.
    I am in 4th gear most of the time,with 5th being used at the exit of turn 14, and 3rd gear for turns 4-5. Top speed on the straight is 133mph wingless and 130mph with the wing at 15 degrees. I am sure with more HP and more downforce the car would turn faster laps,but that is a story for another day.

    Link to WHR…http://www.palmermotorsportspark.com/default.aspx

    Track map..2.3 miles long and about 200 feet of elevation change..all carved out of a mountain top. Nirvana!! I'll be back there on Sept 11th and 14th/15th. Can't wait! Everyone that saw the car with the new wing loved it as well.

    Track is run counter-clockwise. Yes, backwards to most any other road race track in USA. (I have run it clockwise..very very nice flow, but some dangerous runoffs, with too much drop…like 350 feet off a cliff..so they run it CCW.)

    Last edited by MadMaxAtom; August 26, 2015 at 07:00 AM.
    The power of an Atom is a terrible thing to waste! Atom owner/operator since 2007. The more you chase perfection,the faster it becomes. John Force for President! (I asked him once in person...he laughed)

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMaxAtom View Post
    On Monday, I took my Atom to Whiskey Hill raceway.The weather was 78 degrees and sunny. I use a Racelogic PerformanceBox GPS data recorder.I ran the first 30 minute session with no wing and ran consistent fast laps of 1:46.8-1:48 seconds with a best of 1:46.8,which is only .2 seconds off what I ran at Time Trials on August 2nd of this year at Whiskey Hill(1:46.6 officially timed and recorded) with no wing.
    So, with no wing mounted, on Monday,the car ran 1:46.8 seconds. What I expected and a good base to start from.
    I then bolted on the Ciro wing and went out with the wing at zero degrees and recorded laps.Lap time averages dropped about .4 seconds. I then moved the wing to 10 degrees and ran a session. Lap time averages dropped about .7 seconds. Then moved the wing to 15 degrees and dropped a full second plus. I did this all day as it was a private test day so LOTS of track time available. My best time of the day was a 1:44.8, with the lap times in the 1:44.8-1:45.3 and this was accomplished with the wing at 15 degrees of angle. That was the sweet spot. The car felt very planted and stable.
    With the wing at 30 degrees of angle,the lap times jumped up into the 1:48-1:50 range. There were some splits that were faster (around the slower corners of the track) but the overall lap times were higher with 30 AoA. Any higher than 30 degrees AoA increased the split times on the slower corners (wing stall,no added downforce) and dropped the trap speeds considerably,and lap times jumped into the 1:50 range. At the end of the day I removed the wing (easier to transport) and ran the last session wingless. Lap times jumped to high 1:46s-1:47s...It actually felt scary wingless...

    My car makes about 235-240whp on 93 octane pump gas. The Ciro wing is a single element wing described earlier in this thread.
    I am in 4th gear most of the time,with 5th being used at the exit of turn 14, and 3rd gear for turns 4-5. Top speed on the straight is 133mph wingless and 130mph with the wing at 15 degrees. I am sure with more HP and more downforce the car would turn faster laps,but that is a story for another day.

    Link to WHR…Palmer Motorsports Park

    Track map..2.3 miles long and about 200 feet of elevation change..all carved out of a mountain top. Nirvana!! I'll be back there on Sept 11th and 14th/15th. Can't wait! Everyone that saw the car with the new wing loved it as well.

    Track is run counter-clockwise. Yes, backwards to most any other road race track in USA. (I have run it clockwise..very very nice flow, but some dangerous runoffs, with too much drop…like 350 feet off a cliff..so they run it CCW.)

    Thank you for sharing the valued information,MadMaxAtom.

  7. #47
    Electron
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyPig View Post
    Thank you for sharing the valued information,MadMaxAtom.
    Seconded, thanks MadMaxAtom, great info.

  8. #48
    Proton FourFather's Avatar
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    Thanks, Max. I know that it took some time to share all that info, but it IS appreciated!
    Eddie FourFather Hill
    Top Fuel Champion on land and water
    www.eddiehillsfuncycles.com since 1966
    Honda, Kawasaki, Polaris, Yamaha

  9. #49
    Neutrino MadMaxAtom's Avatar
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    Spent the last two days at Whiskey Hill and logged over 6hrs of seat time in my Atom2…and have to say, the car never felt better.My lap times were the fastest for the event. (and, a personal best as well,1:44.22!!)
    The new wing makes the car sedan-like stable at speeds over 60mph and the overall feel is excellent! All the "nervousness" at high speeds the car use to have is completely gone. The wing mounts never budged and I checked the torque on them a couple of times with no adjustments necessary. Everyone who saw the wing commented on how natural it looked on the car..like it was a factory option. It really compliments the look of the Atom,and is 100% functional. It's not too much,and not too little. Just right,a well balanced package. Win win win!

    Big THANKS to Ciro Racing for making this very functional and handsome wing kit available for the Atom.

    Some pictures..: I LOVE Whiskey Hill!

    CIMG4773.jpg
    CIMG4774.jpg
    CIMG4776.jpg
    CIMG4777.jpg
    CIMG4778.jpg
    Last edited by MadMaxAtom; September 16, 2015 at 08:16 AM.
    The power of an Atom is a terrible thing to waste! Atom owner/operator since 2007. The more you chase perfection,the faster it becomes. John Force for President! (I asked him once in person...he laughed)

  10. #50
    Neutrino MadMaxAtom's Avatar
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    Pictures from todays event at Whiskey Hill Raceway with the new 12" wing height extension. BIG thanks to Rick at Ciro racing for doing this for me and the Atom community.


    CIMG4791.jpgCIMG4792.jpgCIMG4793.jpgCIMG4794.jpg


    VERY Happy with the results I saw today. At slower speeds (under 90mph) the felt wing effects were greater than with the wing mounted lower.(which was not in clean air due to the track roll bar)
    I did a personal best time of 1:43.7 on a cold track (50s) and am excited to get back this Friday..although the weather is looking even colder. I may have to mount my studded shnow tires…that won't help times…
    Last edited by MadMaxAtom; October 18, 2015 at 04:54 AM.
    The power of an Atom is a terrible thing to waste! Atom owner/operator since 2007. The more you chase perfection,the faster it becomes. John Force for President! (I asked him once in person...he laughed)

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