Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 75
Like Tree7Likes

Thread: Ariel china ???

  1. #31
    Neutrino MadMaxAtom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Usually in my shop..
    Posts
    1,583
    Country
    United States
    "Dear breakaway500, {that's my Ebay username}

    Where is the ripoff? We are not trying to deceive anyone, the kit is clearly described as a replica and there are no trademark violations or anything else illegal. Should every Cobra, GT40, Stratos and other replica manufacturers be ashamed? Are they ripoffs?

    But, thank you for sharing your opinion. The original car manufacturer clearly has gone out of their way to earn your loyalty, I commend them for that.

    - altraimports"

    Talk about denial.
    Last edited by MadMaxAtom; March 6, 2013 at 04:15 AM.
    The power of an Atom is a terrible thing to waste! Atom owner/operator since 2007. The more you chase perfection,the faster it becomes. John Force for President! (I asked him once in person...he laughed)

  2. #32
    Neutron
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,677
    Country
    United States
    I'd say that replica's are fine but if I remember correctly, Ariel China had all the specs of the Atom including cad files. That's a bit different than just designing one from scratch that looks like it or doing a replica of a vintage car with fiberglass over space frame. But, its China. They encourage kids to use plagiarism in school. How are you going to convince them that's its wrong.
    the high profile toy thrower

  3. #33
    Neutrino MadMaxAtom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Usually in my shop..
    Posts
    1,583
    Country
    United States
    Building a replica car AFTER the original one is long out of production is fine in my mind..however,competing for present day sales by using the exact same design is WRONG...I don't have to convince anyone about right and wrong, now do I..?
    Last edited by MadMaxAtom; March 7, 2013 at 07:24 PM.
    The power of an Atom is a terrible thing to waste! Atom owner/operator since 2007. The more you chase perfection,the faster it becomes. John Force for President! (I asked him once in person...he laughed)

  4. #34
    Neutrino Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lake Tapps, WA
    Posts
    2,223
    Country
    United States
    I do believe that Lambo and Ferrari have both stopped replicas of cars that were not still in production. I do not see how this could be condoned unless there is a loop hole in the contracts


    http://altraimports.com/ I always love web site that advertise product with no home or contact information, this kind of web site, even if legit, smells bogus.
    Last edited by Norm; March 6, 2013 at 07:49 AM.

  5. #35
    Electron
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    141
    Country
    United States
    I feel sorry for TMI, who is going to have to incur legal fees to stop these sales. I think it is primarily a contract dispute, but with international players it will get messy. And potentially very expensive very quickly.

    These are not replica cars. These are EXACT COPIES, as far as I am aware. Presumably, the Chinese company was given exact engineering specifications and jigs to construct the vehicles. Having agreed to sell the vehicles in a specified area only, it appears that Chinese company is now breaching that agreement, and the US importer in OR is inducing them to do so.

    I think there exists a likelihood of confusion between the Chinese manufactured frames and genuine frames. The eBay ad says this is an exact replica, but tries to avoid a trademark dispute by saying the frames are not being sold under the marks "Ariel" or "Atom". I doubt I could tell a Chinese made frame from an authentic TMI made one, without being told very specifically what to look for. I also wouldn't want my insurance company to think cheap, substandard Chinese-manufactured frames were available in order to calculate replacement cost of my vehicle in the event of loss.

    I am most curious about TMI's following statements regarding safety and the numerous other reasons "Ariel China" was no longer authorized to manufacture frames:
    "The specific subject ‘vehicles’ currently being offered on eBay clearly represent non-conforming, untested, potentially unsafe & otherwise partially manufactured ‘Chinese Atoms’. There are numerous valid reasons that “Ariel China” is no longer authorized to manufacture Atoms for sale within China."

    If there are valid safety concerns, or substandard materials used in the Chinese "replicas", which safety concerns don't exist with properly produced TMI vehicles, that seems to me something the court will be very interested in hearing. Again, though, it pains me that TMI will have to pay legal fees to get this sorted out.

  6. #36
    Lepton
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    335
    Country
    United States
    If this isn't a contract violation, can anyone explain how this is technically illegal? Are the components patented, trademarked, etc? I can think of many cases where an exact copy of a design under a different brand is legal.

    I have a friend that is working on making some unique aftermarket body components for cars (nothing to do with Atoms). Is there a way that he can protect his designs from being copied?

  7. #37
    Neutrino MadMaxAtom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Usually in my shop..
    Posts
    1,583
    Country
    United States
    "Dear breakaway500,

    altra imports is a completely separate company from palatov motorsport. the kit is not a palatov product and palatov motorsport is not in any way involved in its manufacture. however, palatov motorsport will be developing several upgrades for it. this will actually result in a wider range of choices being available to owners of the original cars.

    we strongly disagree that there is anything to be ashamed of. when precisely a replica comes out is irrelevant, there is no official or unofficial waiting period or time limit. there are plenty of replicas of ferrari's and lamborghini's current products. and incidentally in this case the original design is now nearly 15 years old.

    the only legal (and moral) standard that applies to replicas is that they may not be misrepresented as the original product, may not infringe on any valid trademark, patent or copyright, and may not be marketed in a way that is likely to mislead or confuse the consumer. we have met that standard.

    you are of course entitled to your opinion but we do not share it."


    I wonder how Palatov would appreciate Altra copying one of his original designs and marketing it directly against his?
    Last edited by MadMaxAtom; March 7, 2013 at 07:26 PM.
    sector: 4 likes this.
    The power of an Atom is a terrible thing to waste! Atom owner/operator since 2007. The more you chase perfection,the faster it becomes. John Force for President! (I asked him once in person...he laughed)

  8. #38
    Neutron
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,677
    Country
    United States
    Didnt the original link to ebay say "ariel atom replica" and now says "exoskeletol replica?"

    ask him for the CAD files to the DP2. I have a new pipe bender I wanted to try out to make a replica.
    sector: 4 likes this.
    the high profile toy thrower

  9. #39
    Ion
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    93
    Country
    United States
    It'll definitely be interesting to see what happens. I keep coming up with examples and contradictory counter-examples to the point where I have no idea which way this could break...

    The replica angle in interesting, but those typically seem to be for vehicles out of current production and are "similar" rather than "exact". OTOH, it would seem to be hard to prevent "exact replacement parts" from being made and imported if there's not (at minimum) a design patent covering them.

    Customs regularly confiscates shipments of "counterfeit" products-- even when they don't have another company label/logo on them. The reasoning being that why would it be *just like* a Nike sneaker if someone wasn't going to put a Nike label on it once it's here and try to pass it off as one?

    On the other side, Heckler&Koch (a German firearms company) licensed some of their designs to be made by other countries (Brazil, Turkey, Malaysia, etc.) under contract and when the contract ended the foreign companies continued making exact "clones" and sold them directly to the US market. Apparently that was "OK", but maybe just because H&K didn't have similar models here and didn't try to fight it? More recently, H&K was able to stop another company from making a firearm that simply *looked* like one of their old ones!

    I'm curious to hear what they're going to do for inspection/warranty/liability. Having done a lot of high-tech stuff over in China over the years (including having our designs pirated there!) my concern would be the old "first shipment is great" effect. Then the next time, the steel in the tubes is a little thinner, the alloys a little cheaper, the factory inspections a little shorter, etc. Repeat many times until something catastrophic happens. Then good luck with the Chinese legal system!

    It's a really weird situation, that's for sure... I suspect that the moral of the story may be "don't give the Chinese your designs".

  10. #40
    Neutrino MadMaxAtom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Usually in my shop..
    Posts
    1,583
    Country
    United States
    "don't give the Chinese your designs".

    Well..when the first story about Ariel "expanding" into China broke,about 3 or 4 years ago...I was thinking along those lines. Talk about giving the Fox the key to the hen house!I had little faith the Chinese would honor any agreement,and that looks to be the case.

    It does not excuse them to now sell their CONTRABAND items in the USA!

    How fair is all this to TMI?

    If TMIATI hadn't jumped in with both feet in 2008 to save the USA built Atom,there would not be any Atom3's in the USA,no support for Atom2's,and certainly no SRA racing series.

    Ariel has expanded in the USA,with Eddie Hill Fun Cycles in Texas and Sector111 in Ca.

    All for the good of all loyal Ariel Atom owners.

    What will Altras contribution to the Ariel Atoms history be?

    Nonstandard off shore brandless components being pedaled by faceless carpetbaggers,selling their imitation products on Ebay.

    Wonderful...
    Last edited by MadMaxAtom; March 7, 2013 at 07:26 PM.
    The power of an Atom is a terrible thing to waste! Atom owner/operator since 2007. The more you chase perfection,the faster it becomes. John Force for President! (I asked him once in person...he laughed)

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Ariel China gone rogue?
    By bolus in forum General Ariel Atom Discussion (for all UK and US versions)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: March 10, 2013, 11:35 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •